Leyland P76 Owners 2005 |
Technical Information |
215 V8 Head flow ( Rover Buick)
Supplied by Daniel C Jones
- To: 215V8@yahoogroups.com
- From: "Jones, Daniel C"
- Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:58:34 -0600
- Subject:[215V8] NEW ENGINE (displacement)
Inquiry
- Every stock 300 head I've seen tested flowed consistently 150cfm intake and 115cfm exhaust at .5" lift.
Reply
- That's what my stock Buick 300 head flowed:
| Valve Lift (inch) |
1964 Buick 300 aluminum heads Intake Exhaust 1.625" 1.312" |
Ford 5.0L HO cast iron Intake Exhaust 1.78" 1.45" |
1962 Buick 215 aluminum heads Intake Exhaust 1.60" 1.48" |
| 0.025 | - | - | 30 35 |
| 0.050 | - | - | 39 41 |
| 0.100 | - | - | 60 54 |
| 0.150 | - | 77 70 | |
| 0.200 | 105 096 | 92 78 | 98 80 |
| 0.250 | --- --- | --- --- | 114 94 |
| 0.300 | 135 108 | 130 95 | 129 105 |
| 0.400 | 142 115 | 141 102 | 138 123 |
| 0.500 | 149 115 | 155 106 | 137 129 |
| 0.600 | 154 116 | 158 105 | --- 129 |
Table #1
- My home ported Buick 215 heads out-flowed the (unported) Buick 300 heads on the exhaust side but lagged a bit on the intake side.
- The 5.0L heads are provided for comparison and are stock with the thermactor bump hanging down in the exhaust port. With the poor flow of the stock Ford heads, it's amazing the 5.0L HO's run as well as they do.
- On the other end of the spectrum, my C302B Ford heads flow 331 CFM at 0.600" lift but they are capable of supporting upwards of 700 HP.
Question
- Stock Buick GN heads flow just about the same as stock 300 heads, and they have been ported to flow as much as 210 cfm on the intake side.
- If the head porter is familiar with the GN heads and knows the casting limits of the 300 head, I don't see why we couldn't get 200+ cfm out of a 300 head.
- Can't wait to hear the flow numbers you get out of your heads.
- The head porter pulled 180+ CFM out of a Rover 3.9L head (see flow numbers below).
- The heads didn't pick up much past 0.4" lift which may be due to the small port size.
- I'm hoping for 200+ CFM out of the Buick 300 heads which is a reasonable number to feed my Buick/Rover stroker (4.0L block, 300 crank). We'll be port matching to a Huffaker single plane intake manifold.
- I'm not sure how much commonality there is between the Buick GN V6 head and the Buick 300 head. The Buick 300 head looks more like a larger port version of the Buick 215.
- The GN has raised exhaust ports that are much closer to square and narrower intake port.
Question
- Are you going to post pics of the chopped head?
Answer
- That's the plan.
- Dan Jones
Porting by Peak Performance Cylinder Heads in Fenton, Missouri:
- A local (St. Louis, MO) MGBV8 owner Devin Davis, had Peak Performance port some Rover 3.9L and Buick 300 heads.
- Porting by Peak Performance Cylinder Heads (Robert Stiden or Woody) in Fenton, Missouri:
| Lift | Rover 3.9L aluminum heads Baseline |
Rover 3.9L aluminum heads Light Port |
Rover 3.9L aluminum heads Stage 4 Porting |
| 0.200 | 92.2 72.2 | 101.4 78.7 | 96.7 80.1 |
| 0.300 | 132.6 85.7 | 136.5 94.0 | 143.9 106.6 |
| 0.400 | 143.3 89.5 | 149.8 100.6 | 177.1 127.0 |
| 0.450 | 145.7 90.5 | 152.7 102.5 | 180.6 134.3 |
| 0.500 | 147.7 91.3 | 153.0 103.5 | 181.0 139.7 |
| 0.550 | 148.0 91.6 | 153.0 104.4 | 181.0 142.8 |
| Valve Lift (inch) |
1964 Buick 300 aluminum heads stock unported Intake Exhaust 1.625" 1.312" |
1964 Buick 300 aluminum heads light port Intake Exhaust 1.625" 1.312" |
|
| 0.200 | 90.4 67.5 | 114.2 79.4 | |
| 0.300 | 129.4 89.5 | 151 107.6 | |
| 0.400 | 138.3 101.1 | 158.6 123.2 | |
| 0.450 | 138.6 103.2 | 159.2 126.6 | |
| 0.400 | 138.3 101.1 | 158.6 123.2 | |
| 0.450 | 138.6 103.2 | 159.2 126.6 | |
| 0.500 | 139 104.7 | 159.8 128.9 | |
| 0.550 | 139 106 | 160 130.1 |
- Note: Stock Buick 300 head flow provided by Dan Lagrou of D&D
- Fabrications.
- Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004
- From: "Jones, Daniel C"
- Adrian,
- Here's some info from my database that may be of use:
| Engine | Years | Bore | Stroke | Main Diam | Rod Diam | Rod Length | Deck Height | Pin Height |
| 215 | 61-63 | 3.50 | 2.80 | 2.3 | 2.0 | 5.66 | 8.96 | - |
| 300 | 64-67 | 3.75 | 3.36 | 2.5 | 2.0 | 5.95 | 9.50 | 1.831-1.842 |
| 340 | 66-67 | 3.75 | 3.85 | 3.0 | 2.0 | 6.38 | 10.15 | 1.831-1.842 |
| 350 | 68-79 | 3.80 | 3.85 | 3.0 | 2.0 | 6.38 | 10.18 | 1.800-1.855 |
- 215 had forged rods
- 300/340/350 had cast rods
- 215/300/340 share camshafts
- 300/340 share oil pan, pistons, and front crank seal
- 215/300/340/V6 fornt covers interchange and waterpumps (different oil pump, water pumps, covers, timing pointers, etc.)
- 300/340/350 share motor mounts and late BOP bellhousing
- 215 shares mounts but uses dog ear bellhousing (shared with Rover and P76, 62-63 V6)
- 300 cast iron block with aluminum heads and intake in 1964
- 300 all cast iron 1965-1967
- There was also 4.4L P76 Leyland version (taller deck aluminum block).
| Cap | year | bore | stroke | main | rod | overbore | weight | width | length | height | sump | starter |
| 215 | 61-63 | 3.5 | 2.80 | 2.3 | 5.66 | 0.030" | 320 | 26 | 28 | 27 | rear | right |
| 350 | 68-79 | 3.8 | 3.85 | 3.0 | 6.38 | 0.030" | 450 | 28.5 | 30.5 | 28.5 | rear | right |
| 400 | 67-69 | 4.04 | 3.90 | 3.25 | 6.60 | 0.210" | 600 | 28 | 30 | 30 | center | right |
| 430 | 67-69 | 4.1875 | 3.90 | 3.25 | 6.60 | 0.060" | 600 | 28 | 30 | 30 | center | right |
| 455 | 70-76 | 4.312 | 3.90 | 3.25 | 6.60 | 0.030" | 600 | 28 | 30 | 30 | center | right |
- Stuff to put in the database when I get the time:
- 215 all aluminum construction
- forged rods
- dog ear bellhousing
- 300 cast iron block with aluminum heads and intake in 1964
- 300 all cast iron 1965-1967
- 340
- 350
Valve Sizes
| Eng Cap | Intake | Exhaust |
| 215 | 1.5 | 1.3125 |
| 300 | 1.625 | 1.3125 (1964 aluminum) |
| 300 | 1.8175 | 1.38 (iron) |
- 300 pin diam 0.9395 5.96" long
- stem diam 0.3407-0.3412
- firing order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
- right bank 2-4-6-8 front-to-rear
- left bacnk 1-3-5-7 front-to-rear
- 300 is essentially a 225V6 with 2 extra cylinders
- The deck height of a 215 is 8.96", a 300 is 9.50", a 340 is 10.15" and the Buick 350 is 10.18".
- A better approach is to install a 340/350 crank in the Buick 300 block.
- A 0.050" overbore and a Buick 340/350 crank (same stroke) yields 350 cubes out of a Buick
- 300 block.
- The mains of the 340/350 crank would need to be turned down to fit the Buick 300 block.
- With the aluminum heads Buick 300 head and intake, along with a mini starter you'd have a very light 350.
- Buick 215 and Rover 3.5 engines were 3.5 bore and 2.8 stroke.
- Rover 3.9(non-crossbolted block) and 4.0(crossbolted block) were 3.7 bore and 2.8 stroke
- Rover 4.2 was 3.7 bore and 3.03 stroke(non-crossbolted block)
- Rover 4.6(crossbolted block) was 3.7 bore and 3.22 stroke (can be offset ground to 3.375)
- Rover crossbolted blocks can only be bored .040 over
- 4.4 (Aussie) engine had taller deck height and is not included here
- * 3.4 inch cranks are from 1964-67 Buick 300 V-8 (215 derived)
- I also have a database of all Buick 215/300/340 camshaft specs available from U.S. cam grinders.
- The 300 heads flow better than the olds heads?
- Yes. A 215 head takes a fair bit of porting to flow equal to an unported Buick 300.
- I recently had a set of unported Buick 300 heads flowed to establish a baseline against which porting results would be judged.
- I also had a pair of home-ported Buick 215 heads.
- I consider the Buick 215 heads to be a "Stage I" port job.
- They were given larger valves that still fit the existing seats. The ports were not appreciably enlarged.
- The seats and bowls were opened to match the valves but I didn't hog out the bowl area since I wasn't sure how thick the casting was in that area.
- The ports were only opend slightly as the heads were going to be used with an unported intake and off-the-shelf TR8 tri-y headers.
- The guides were also not streamlined or shortened.
- My Dad had a set of new Ford Y-block valves that looked like they could be modified to fit the Buick 215 heads and existing seats.
- The may not be the optimum valve sizes but, since free is a characteristic overcoming many faults, I used them.
- The Buick 300 heads were not ported, use stock valves and were given only a basic cleanup.
See Table # 1
- I didn't baseline the flow on the stock 215 heads but it is reasonable to assume that a stock Buick 215 head would flow a fair bit less than a stock Buick 300 head which has a similar layout but larger ports and valves.
- It appears the larger valves did a good job of picking up flow, especially on the exhaust side.
- A larger intake valve would provide a better intake-to-exhaust flow ratio.
- However, it appears to me the intake seats would have to be replaced to go with say a 1.7" intake valve in the 215 heads. I think the Buick 300 heads will accept a 1.7" intake valve on the stock seats.
- I've included the flow numbers for a stock 5.0L Ford HO head (E7TE casting).
- Previous lore had held that stock Buick 300 heads would flow as well as stock 5.0L Ford HO heads and as well as radically ported 215 heads.
- The first part proved to be true but not the second part as we shall see. With a larger intake valve and some additional porting, my home-ported 215 heads should out-flow stock 300 heads.
- Of course, if you are going to the effort and expense of porting, starting with a set of Buick 300's would make sense, particularly on a stroker where the larger chambers yield better compression ratios for street engines.
- In the September-December 2003 issue of the British V8 Newsletter, Kurt Schley reports the results of a maximum porting effort on a set of Olds 215 heads (the 51 cc version, casting suffix -746).
- These are the low compression Olds heads which are going on a 289 cubic inch stroker Olds 215 (welded iron 3.75" stroke crank).
- The porting was performed by Dwayne Porter (c/o Motion Machine 802-951-1955).
- The article does not say what pressure drop the heads were tested at but states the flow numbers were corrected to 28" H2O. This means the heads were flowed at some lower pressure drop and ratio'd by the square root of the ratio of the pressure drops. These numbers are likely to be optimistic compared to flow actually taken at 28".
- Valve train used:
- Ferrea P/N F6223 (Intake valve for a Ford 2.3L), 1.74" head diameter, 11/32" diameter stem, 4.8 long, 0.4" tip.
- Ferrea P/N F6224 (Ehaust valve for a Ford 2.3L), 1.50" head diameter, 11/32" diameter stem, 4.8 long, 0.4" tip.
- Comp Cams valve springs P/N COM-901-16 (ouer spring with damper), 1.5" OD, 1.080" ID, 110 lbs @ 1.65" load at checking height, 290 lbs @ 1.150" load at open height , 1.110" coil bind height
- Comp Cams retainers P/N COM-743-16 steel 7 degrees lock angle.
- The valve head diameters were reduced to 1.62"/1.4", so the stock valve
- seats could be retained.
- Test #1 Stock head 1.525"/1.35" valves
- Test #2 Stock valves but full head porting, intake opened to 1.70" x 1.00", 30 degree back cut on valves, competition valve job
- Test #3 As Test #2 but with 1.62" intake valves, 1.40" exhaust valves (intake and exhaust backcut)
- Test #4 As Test #3 but intakes opened to 1.80" X 1.00", fully polished runners, guides streamline
Valve Lift (inch) |
Test #1 Stock Olds 215 heads 1.525" 1.350" Intake Exhaust |
Test #2 Ported Olds 215 heads 1.525" 1.350" Intake Exhaust |
Test #3 Ported Olds 215 heads 1.620" 1.400" Intake Exhaust |
Test #4 Ported Olds 215 heads 1.620" 1.400" Intake Exhaust |
|
| 0.100 | 43 35 | 48 36 | 51 45 | 51 46 | |
| 0.150 | 63 52 | 72 55 | 77 64 | 77 64 | |
| 0.200 | 85 65 | 95 73 | 104 76 | 104 78 | |
| 0.250 | 104 73 | 111 85 | 128 88 | 128 90 | |
| 0.300 | 116 77 | 124 96 | 146 99 | 147 101 | |
| 0.350 | 122 80 | 138 105 | 159 108 | 161 112 | |
| 0.400 | 128 81 | 150 110 | 168 114 | 172 118 | |
| 0.450 | 133 84 | 158 114 | 168 119 | 173 123 | |
| 0.500 | 134 84 | 165 119 | 170 124 | 174 126 | |
| 0.550 | 136 84 | 168 120 | 173 126 | 176 129 | |
| 0.600 | 136 84 | 168 122 | 174 127 | 178 130 |
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